GEOFF BENNETT: Former President Trump took the stand in New York today defending himself in the $250 million civil fraud trial brought by state Attorney General Letitia James.
The former president wasted little time sparring with the judge, sounding off repeatedly from the witness stand.
The judge largely ignored the barbs directed his way, but warned the former president's attorneys to keep their client on topic, stating: "I beseech you to control him if you can.
If you can't, I will.
I will excuse him and draw every negative inference that I can."
Andrea Bernstein is the author of "American Oligarchs: The Kushners, the Trumps, and the Marriage of Money and Power."
She's been in the courtroom covering the trial for NPR, and she joins us now.
Andrea, it's great to see you.
So, Judge Engoron, he chided Donald Trump several times today, asked him to keep his remarks brief, at one point told him, this is not a political rally.
What was it like in the courtroom today?
ANDREA BERNSTEIN, NPR: So, it was not like a political rally.
We were, which was a big courtroom, but a much smaller room than most people probably see Donald Trump in, and one in which he did not control the discourse, where he had to stand when the clerk said "All Rise" and swear to tell the whole truth.
And this is something that we haven't seen from Donald Trump since he's been president, is him, since he was president, since he has not testified under oath in real time.
And that's what we got to see today.
GEOFF BENNETT: And the judge has already decided that the Trump Organization's financial statements were filled with fraud.
And that is central to this lawsuit that the New York attorney general, Letitia James, has brought.
And here's what she told reporters earlier today.
LETITIA JAMES, New York Attorney General: He rambled.
He hurled insults.
But we expected that.
At the end of the day, the documentary evidence demonstrated that, in fact, he falsely inflated his assets to basically enrich himself and his family.
He continued to persistently engage in fraud.
The numbers don't lie.
GEOFF BENNETT: So, how did Donald Trump explain and defend his business record in court today?
ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Well, he did hurl insults.
He insulted both the attorney general.
He said at one point: "The fraud is her."
He repeatedly criticized the judge, who he said wasn't giving him a fair trial.
But when pressed on the contents of these statements of financial conditions, Donald Trump had a few responses.
One was that he barely remembered them because they were so old and so long ago.
But one thing he did remember clearly is that there was a -- what he called a worthless clause, a disclaimer, which he said meant the bank should be checking his works, that he was somehow not responsible for the content of these statements of financial condition.
And we have seen during the trial that they were laboriously put together.
So he was on the one hand saying they weren't important and also saying he had nothing to do with them, they were done by his accountants, for whom he wanted to make it clear they were very expensive, he paid a lot of money and they came at a high price.
GEOFF BENNETT: Well, Donald Trump also spoke to reporters upon exiting the court.
Here's what he had to say.
DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: I think you saw what I had to say today, and it was very conclusive.
Everything we did was absolutely right.
To think that we're being sued and spending all this time and money, and you have people being killed all over the world that this country could stop, with inflation and all of the other problems that this country has, I think it's a disgrace.
GEOFF BENNETT: So he's effectively saying there are more important things to focus on.
How do his comments to the media, his behavior inside the courtroom today affect the eventual outcome?
Because this is a bench trial decided by a judge.
This is not a jury trial.
ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Right.
The judge has said Trump can say anything, other than criticizing his staff.
And he during the testimony today kept asking the attorney general if he wanted to just let Trump go on.
He wasn't answering questions yes or no.
He was answering them with these sort of mini-speeches in which he would go off on various things.
But we did get to a point where he was saying that the statements of financial conditions were something that he stood behind, sort of.
He also said that they were actually undervaluing his properties.
But when showed repeatedly by the attorney general his attestations that these were true and that they were used as the basis for big loans from Deutsche Bank, Trump said that, yes, that he stood by those statements.
And he also sort of threw in that the banks had done well.
Now, under New York law, it doesn't matter.
New York law says you cannot repeatedly lie in the course of doing business and that, if you do so, you can be forced to pay back the state.
That's what's at issue at the trial, how much the Trumps will have to pay back to New York.
The A.G. wants $250 million, a sizable amount for any person, especially Donald Trump, who doesn't like to pay anything that he doesn't feel that he is required to pay.
GEOFF BENNETT: Well, Andrea, how does Donald Trump's testimony today, how does that square with what his sons Don Jr. and Eric Trump told the court last week?
Because they were saying that they had no role, no idea what was happening, it was all the Trump Organization accountants and lawyers.
And Donald Trump, on the other hand, is saying that, yes, what was provided was accurate.
ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Well, he was -- Donald Trump -- I do want to say that Donald Trump did say that they were undercounts, undervalues.
His properties, he felt, were beautiful properties worth far more than came up in these appraisals.
But one of the things that was interesting is the way he pointed to his younger son Eric Trump, who was essentially running the company while he was president and has been doing so.
And he said Eric was making the decisions.
So there's a little bit of tension there, because Eric Trump was saying, well, this was on the accountants, it was on the lawyers.
That is also what Donald Trump Jr. said.
But somebody is running this international company.
Somebody is making the decisions.
And that is ultimately how the judge is going to have to determine it, whether there was a conspiracy by Donald Trump and his two older sons, as well as some other Trump employees, to create these repeated and persistent lies about the value of their assets over the years, which they then used to certify bank loans, to certify insurance claims.
That, under New York law, is what the law says you're not allowed to do.
GEOFF BENNETT: Andrea Bernstein, our eyes and ears inside the courtroom today, thanks so much.
ANDREA BERNSTEIN: Thank you.
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